Back in December you gave me some advice on how to handle a situation with a girl I was with for 5+ years. I had unknowingly backslid hard thinking that our relationship had the longevity to negate the need for game. I quickly learned soon after your response and reading of ‘The Black Flag’ that you must never stop running game; that you must always maintain your frame.
Anyway, if you want to refer back to my comment to refresh your memory (it was detailed) feel free, but the gist is: I lived with this girl for over 5 years and things were great, gradually it was perceived by her that I was struggling to make a business work when I began asking her to pay for her share of our bills, she began losing attraction for me as a provider and protector, etc. I apologized (looking back I can’t believe some of the things I said), she began sneaking around behind my back and cheating on me, I acted out emotionally and was obviously upset (serious DLV), she moved out, then said she was confused and was considering coming back, I told her there was no chance of revival, she began seeking validation by texting me, and I gave it to her by trying to hang out with her.
This is when I asked you for advice. You basically told me to forget about her, that the relationship has way too much baggage, and once a girl cheats there is no going back because subconsciously she will assume it is acceptable. Truth. So I did my best to keep every thought of her out of my head and it worked as I was able to focus on new chicks and myself. I ignored her weekly texts. Her friend lives in the top floor apartment of my house, so as she realized I was not going to try to get her back, she began coming over to my house more often. She began parking in my typical spot right outside of my front door obviously trying to be seen. This continues week after week. She makes as much noise as she can coming in and out of my house. I hear her asking her friend ‘whose car is that?’ when she notices one of my new girls’ cars outside.
A month later, she hears through a friend that I am hanging out with another girl and she’s taking me out for my birthday that weekend. My ex invites me out for a harmless birthday drink and I accept, thinking that I am going to subtly show her how great my life is (which it was then and is now), and I’m not going to give her an inch. We go out, she is obviously physically attracted to me again (since I have been hitting the gym hard (up 20lbs since October), lots of inappropriate-for-Disney-World type of kino, some nasty talk, whatever… Anyway, we both get sufficiently drunk that I start thinking about bringing her back to my place (she’s an easy 9). She seems totally down with it, but when we get back to my place (her car was there), instead of just leading her inside or offering to show her my new pet marmocet, I ask her if she’s coming in. She tells me she’s really attracted to me but she thinks it’s too soon since we just broke up, she says if she comes in we’re gonna have secks and she’s afraid of what will happen afterwards (doesn’t want to regret her decision, I chose this path and now I’m on it) yada, yada. She says that I’m going to get laid by some girl the next night anyway. After some back and forth, I say ‘whatever’ and get out of the car, knowing that I fucked up. She follows and asks me if I’m mad. I say ‘it’s whatever’. We’re both pretty hammered. She gives me a hug and leaves. I go in the house thinking I lost control of the situation and I’m really pissed at myself. I think about ‘The Black Flag’ and how this bastard Shark is just dead right about this stuff. At that very moment, your words were fully accepted as truth. As a sidenote, I just wanted to plow her, nothing more, as I had and still have a variety of girls at the ready.
She texts me at the crack of dawn the next morning saying ‘Happy B-day’ and I text her back thanks, she texts me back looking for more conversation and I say nothing. She calls me a few weeks later to ask me a stupid question about her car that anyone else could tell her. I brush her off. Unsolicited, she tells me about what’s happening in her life like I should care and I don’t and it’s clear.
A few more weeks go by and it is the end of February. I see her leaving my house early in the morning as I am coming back from a girl’s apartment. She asks me where I’ve been and I just shake my head and tell her she’s not looking so good with a straight face (I meant it). She says her sister just had a baby earlier that morning and she was too wasted to drive to see her. I said ‘that sucks’ and went in the house. She looked at me longingly like I should care; that she could cry.
After that, she stopped coming over to my house to see her friend.
She had been nice and friendly and seemingly hopeful of some type of something between us in the future up until this point, but she texted me a few weeks later that she was coming to take her grill that she told me I could keep (mind you I still have a bunch of random shit of hers in my basement). I told her she could have it when I moved out and she sent me a cunty text which I ignored. I then saw her drive by my house as I was walking to my door about an hour later. She drove by like a creep with some dude in her car and when she saw me she slowed way down like she wanted to turn around and go back the other way. I just grilled her as she drove by and she gave me this super gay embarrassed grin as she passed. I texted her and asked her how old she was. I did not see her again for two months.
This past weekend I saw her boss at a bar and ended up talking to him for a while since we used to be pretty good friends and I hadn’t seen him in 5 months or so. He told me things were the same with ‘the business’ and my ex was still slaving away for them. I told him about my new job and general things about how sweet my life is. I made it a point to insinuate how much money I was making since I knew whatever I said would make it back to my ex. I was with this hot-ass girl that looks similar to her to top it off. Anyway, what do you suppose happened the next day?
I get a text from her straight out of Forgetting Sarah Marshall or something like that: ‘Steve said he saw you the other night (it was last night and this dude probably had just told her) and he said you looked really great and sounded really great. Glad your job is going well!’ I didn’t respond and still haven’t.
Before we broke up, she made it clear that she lost attraction for me because I was not as jacked as I used to be (I ate a vegan diet because of her, jesus), and because she felt insecure about our future in terms of my income-generating abilities, i.e. you have lots of great ideas, but I don’t think you will make any of them work. Now she knows I look good and I have money. I missed her for a month or so and still miss some of the best parts of her, inevitably when I don’t see them in another girl, but for her to leave me when I was down, for her not to believe in me, and cheat on me for fux sake, is all unforgiveable, backsliding or not, and getting back with her has never been an option.
Now she knows for sure that I truly don’t give a shit about her (she KNOWS this or at least her hamster does) and honestly I don’t. You may not believe me but I don’t. I just think she is finally coming to grips with the fact that I will never be a part of her life again and she is realizing what it means to break up almost 6 months later. She knows I’m making a healthy salary and have a business on the side, she sees my new car (it’s not an Accord), she knows there are other girls, and she knows I’m happy without her.
So I’m writing to you to get your opinion partly because I never thanked you for your golden advice months ago, and also because I feel like I owe it to myself since you led me down a path to success when I could have gone down a path of self-destruction or maybe just self-loathing and apathy. Plus you enjoy reading detailed stories, yes?
So what to do, Shark? Is she trying once again to lure me in so she can say ‘ish don’t think so’ again and feel validated? Is she trying to test me to see if I’m really as alpha as she may perceive me to be now? Does she really want to me to join her minions in the friend zone (she already knows being friends is not an option)? Does she want to find out if she still has feelings for me? Does she want to steal my kidneys and sell them? Probably all of the above…
My head tells me to just keep ignoring her, but my gut says ignoring her is the beta route to take. I think that talking to her and dominating her mental faculties through sheer masculine will may solidify my transition and make me feel even more all-powerful. I can tell you honestly that my goals in life include exploring the plethora of women available in the world and in no way do I want to get involved in a soul-sucking relationship with anyone, especially this girl. So respond and dominate or ignore?
I’m aware that just writing this is placing way too much importance on this girl, but you must trust me that the only time I spend thinking about this girl is when I get it shoved in my face by an interloper. This comment is for the education of myself and other readers that are faced with this same dilemma. I feel dirty just writing this. I’m going to the gym.
All of the above. Her faux indignation is a combination of affirmation seeking behavior, a need to re-assess your frame, and authentic attraction which she’s having trouble coming to terms with. Betatizing you or selling your kidneys would be the obvious cures; but (hopefully) ones she’ll never get. Assuming your value is continuing to shoot up and up, I suspect her hamster is having trouble reconciling with her compulsion to trade up the hypergamy ladder considering that what she dated in the past dwarfs her future prospects. And as a result, is trying to turn you into a perceived beta to increase the viability of her other options and re-affirm her own value. And of course, now that you guys aren’t in direct contact with each other, she has no way to shit test you other than to find side avenues that grant proximity and plausible deniability at the same time (she wants to be around you, but needs another reason other than you).
That instance on your birthday was handled incorrectly as far as your goals are concerned. If you wanted to get back with her, what you did was right. But if your goal was secks with no strings attached, you should’ve led her inside; a bold move I’m sure she wouldn’t have second guessed. Any proceeding LMR from then on could easily be defused by short bursts of freezing out. To simplify further:
Her rationalization of not wanting things to escalate falls in line with our theory of “never listen to what a girl says, only what she does.” Always see actions in light of their most elementary intentions. Why is a girl interested in you? Attraction + Rapport. If attraction was already there, what was missing that kept her from asking to come inside herself? Rapport. A woman never thinks logically (especially not when under the influence), she thinks emotionally. Her reason for not wanting to come inside couldn’t have anything to do with a rational concern over the long-term stability of your relationship and/or her own well being.
She felt that the gap between your statuses was too far and that having secks with you would only widen it. When you asked “are you coming in?” You did the right thing in terms of establishing frame control, and one of strong detachment and amused mastery; but it took you too far out of her own reach. She knows you already have hand, this would’ve been giving you everything else. The things she said, “You’re going to have secks with another girl tomorrow anyways,” “Are you mad?” and texting you the next day are all symptoms of this. Starting with the first; her hamster caused her to blurt out one of its insecurities in Freudian fashion, she wanted to see if “you’re mad” because by eliciting an emotional response from you she would’ve gotten hand again (which you could have conceded to and then turned the entire thing into a huge emotional hate fuck), and she is torn between wanting you and wanting you to want her.
Ignore it, do not try and re-engage even under a “new frame.” To solidify your transition would mean to let go of it. Your urge to dominate it is stemming from a deep seated need for self-affirmation from a girl that previously cheated on you; a type of ego confirmation that says “Yes, now I KNOW I’m Alpha because I conquered the greatest symbol of my Beta self,” but so long as you need something to solidify your transition in the first place, you can’t get there. The end of the journey comes when you no longer want to quantify your progress.
This entire dynamic is poison for you and needs to be cut. You’re doing well, continue it. I also notice, and this may or may not be true, that you chose a very specific way of acting on your birthday incident. Like I said, you had two options:
(a) Not have secks but retain strong frame
(b) Have secks even if you need to concede a bit, gives you secks if that’s all you care about
Being a reader here by then and already on your way to a better life, I’m sure you were at least subconsciously aware of the second option. But still, you didn’t choose (b), you chose (a). You’ll have to figure out if that’s because there are lingering remnants of a Oneitis there or because she shook up your frame so strongly in the past that you are now more inclined to remain unshakable (a rarer strain of Oneitis). But this has the ironic double effect of meaning she DID get to you, because she caused you to react by actively choosing to remain unreactive (if that makes any sense). If you’ve read the post on Golden Nuggets, recall how important it is to know thyself. Be in tune with your subconscious and understand where your weaknesses lie. Your conscious mind will tend to justify them as strengths, but they are not. You see her as the greatest reminder of your beta past and now feel the need to conquer it as a way to finally objectively conquer your beta self; this is why your gut instinct does not agree with passively ignoring it. But to conquer it IS to let go of it – it doesn’t work the other way around.
I’ve been reading your blog for quite a while now, read your e-book.
Absorbed every bit of information as I could and actually questioned it without being naive.
Your e-book was actually worth it, thanks; it put a lot of thoughts into words for me.
I’m in need of some advice and tips.
My situation is kind of interesting.
I was born in Romania, my parents didn’t really have time for me as a kid, they were always away on business; they worked together. We had a store franchise, everything went great although of course it was a lot of work for my parents.
At a point, my father motivated us to emigrate to the United States. He went there first and started a transportation company.
When he had about 5 trucks and trailers, he brought us there as well. I was maybe 3-5 years old when we moved, don’t remember much.
We moved somewhere near San Diego, California. The store franchise back in Romania was given by my father to his sister (fuck). It was a mistake of course, she sold everything and didn’t give us a penny.
So I started school at 7 years of age. Moved a lot because my mother couldn’t adapt to ONE place.
I’ve been all over the USA… NYC, LA, Las Vegas, Washington DC, you name it.
I did well in school. I guess I was really quiet, a “loner”, didn’t really fit in and didn’t care to try.
I remember though that about every hot girl in school had a crush on me, also kept hearing gossip at almost every school I went. I learned how to play the violin, guitar and piano in middle school. (I think it’s called elementary).
I was like the hot European guy who doesn’t give a fuck about any American pussy, negs the fuck out of em’; is rich, maybe spoiled but doesn’t show it (I was not spoiled) and rode in daddy’s Jag. My views were mainly on business and financial ideas. I remember the first gf i’ve ever had was by accident, because I tried avoiding having the school cheerleading captain as a girlfriend (long story). Turned out they had a bitch fight and one ended up crying in the bathroom (avoided both of them after that).
Anyway, in 7th grade/year we wanted to move to the United Kingdom. I thought Birmingham was cool, didn’t care really about moving. I liked the adventure of moving, went to about 4-5 different schools in the US. So it wasn’t really a new experience.
The same thing happened in Birmingham.
Had the biggest house in the neighborhood, had a jaw dropping Chevrolet Explorer and Mercedes shipped from America to England including all our American collection of furniture.
Kind of the worst year of school for me, avoided going with the Cheve to school.
The English weren’t really that friendly with me, I guess it’s because I mind-fucked all their screwable chicks that year.
Joined the school basketball team, the second best school in the area.
So when I left the US, I had just finished the 7th grade/year.
Then when I arrived at Birmingham, they said that it’s equivelant to the 9th grade/year in England.
So I actually skipped 8th grade/year.
In England, we didn’t start any business. We actually spent a LOT of money and had no income.
After spending most of our money, the tables had turned.
We decided to move back to Romania.
So I had finished the 9th grade/year in the UK, and normally when a student comes from another country to Romania and tries to enroll at a school here, he/she’s put in a grade/year lower, equivelant to their studies.
(The Romanian Curriculum is a lot more vast and complex than in the US or UK.
The stuff they teach here in the 10th — 11th grade/year is equivelant to College or University stuff in other countries, especially in Mathematics).
The children here all start school at the same time as in the US though, but it’s just harder, they also finish 12 years of school, same as in the US.
When I sent the papers to the Ministry of Education, it took about 3 years to respond, we called and coincidentally the lady was looking over my papers at the exact same time, heard our situation and said that it’s almost christmas, so just be happy and continue onto the 10th grade/year. (She was actually supposed to put me into a few years lower even though we requested the 10th grade/year.)
We have 2 houses here that we’re renovating, some land properties as well.
So 3 years have passed since then, I just finished the 12th grade/year here and took my Baccalaureate exams. (It was really hard catching up to my peers)
I finished high school at 16 years of age. when everyone else in my class were 18-19 years old.
I analyzed my situation, and I think that it’s best that I move back to the US and start a business.(oh, I’m not an only child, had a sister born in California while we were there)
(a year passed since I finished HS) I’m turning 18 this summer. As I said the tables have turned, we spent most of our money in England, had just been able recently to get back up
enough to renovate and construct these 2 houses.
I’m thinking of going as an International student, registering to a city college because it’s cheaper, get married(not really going for college, but for marriage and a business idea).
The thing is, if I don’t get married within my college/univ. period, I’ll be deported back to Romania.
I want to move back and start a business. Then expand and maybe go into Agriculture after buying some land in the US.
All of this I will accomplish on my own, I’ll only have my dad for a little financial help and advice.
I’m considering paying a girl to marry me if I can, have an open relationship with her (or official, whatever), until I can move on (or stick with her if we get along).
I think I’ll throw up in the plane toward the US. I don’t want my parents to know that I feel this much pressure, i’m sure my dad knows how I feel anyway.
It really is a lot of pressure. Starting from scratch, attending college, marrying a girl without being desperate (but actually be) to not let her take advantage of you (or paying her).
How would you play the getting married part out? Do you have any pointers on getting married for papers? I don’t know if I should just be straight forward or… It’s just too complicated for my 18 year old brain to handle at one time.
I’m just going to let the chips fall where they may and be my best self.
How would you approach this?
I’ve never had any problems with women, had a more profound look upon life. It’s like a masculine character and outlook on life is unavoidable for me.
I’d say my dad’s a super alpha. Doesn’t cheat on my mother, usually flirts if the woman has a hot daughter for me…
I’ve dated recently only 20-23 year old girls. I have because I can, people say that i’m very mature for my age, look mature too, wear stylish clothes, classical, original, different. I’m still 17 years old.
This situation is very stressful for me, It’ll be a different situation in the US, i’ll be starting from scratch, no reputation, nothing.
Shark, I don’t need a savior, I’m very political, I also know about religion.
All I need is a good piece of advice, I don’t know, maybe a little bit of help with my self-esteem. (In your own way)
I’m not really good with words, more of a body language type of guy and with my tone of voice.
What do you think?
Seeing as how you have game and ambition; finding a girl to marry won’t be difficult. The harder part will be living with your decision in case you think it wrong in the future or if your marriage becomes unstable. Although you could, however, take the Machiavellian route and choose to marry only for papers and then take advantage of America’s very gracious divorce standards. Get an iron-clad prenup and bam; you’re on your way. Which means your options are three-fold:
(a) Kill it at university to transfer into the best school you can. Become a very viable candidate for a job that offers a work visa or become successful enough to get a business visa
(b) Pay a girl to marry you
(c) Marry and assume you can always get divorced later on
If you want the honest answer, I would approach this the same exact way you are currently approaching it. I’ve never felt I was working to the pinnacle of my capabilities unless I was backed into a corner. You’re stressing out about it because you are worried of what will happen in the event that you “fail.” Embrace it. Let it flow through all of your thoughts. That anxiety will keep you focused throughout. Are you guaranteed to succeed? Hell no. But where would the challenge be if you were? Do or Die.
Option (a) is much, much safer than you think. In fact, everyone I know who was in your situation has done exactly that. They came here, fist raped American students in Math and engineering, and then went on to acquire work visas at ease. Remember there’s a reason why many countries suffer from a brain drain. To approach this with as much audacity yet practically as possible, I would say work your heart out in both business and school simultaneously.
Hi shark, any thoughts on swinging? If your gf seems interested in experimenting new things sexually (despite us having a great sex life), is that necessarily a sign of low interest? Thanks
Go for it. If it were low interest, she wouldn’t bring it up.
Here’s a delicate situation that I wish the Shark to spread some light on:
It’s 10pm on a Friday night. You and your girl have driven far out of town to visit some of HER friends (consisting of two females and one metro-sexual male). Your girlfriend, the little shit-testing devil she is, feels empowered because she’s now with her friends (funny isn’t it?). She then decides to throw a cosmic shit test your way. In front of her friends, she enthusiastically proclaims that you all should go dancing at the hottest, most flaming gay club in town. All of her friends cheerfully agree. You, on the other hand, do not see a night of rubbing up against gay men as “fun”.
Naturally, you decline, suggesting a straight club instead. Nevertheless, she and her friends press for the gay club, laughing and smirking as they realize they have you on the hot seat. “What’s the matter? You’re not afraid of gay men, are you?”
“No,” you reply, “I’m not gay, why would I go to a gay club?”. You look away, feigning aloofness. To concede now would be to surrender your balls to her IN FRONT OF HER FRIENDS, one of the most abject forms of castration known to mankind.
Like in a chess match, you quickly contemplate your options. A delicate situation indeed! For only a man unsure of his own masculinity would be so resistant about partying at a gay club. You want to prove that you are confident and fun, whether among gays or hoes, but you have already cast your position. To backtrack now would be to fail the shit test, betray your own ideals, and spend all night in gay club while your girl and her friends laugh and cheer on gay men with impunity. After all, there’s nothing wrong with her flirting and dancing with gay gays in front of you, right? They are gay, after all.
Your options, as I see it:
1) Refuse to go, ditch them, and head by yourself to a normal club instead. Then again, you may come off as a homophobe, a man unsure of his masculinity, and an overall party pooper/loner.
2) Go ahead with them to the gay club. Then find any women there and hit on them while your girl tries to pull off her antics around the gays.
3) Give her your alpha sith lord death stare and pray you have enough dominance in the relationship to make her pussy quiver and her mind change. ( I wish I had this one )
I’ve been in this situation before, the correct answer is:
(4) Go there and run game. Let the guy guys hit on you, buy you shots, and all that jazz.
You laugh? Think about it this way; your girlfriend has unknowingly bought you into a club where social dynamics are inverted and skewed in your favor. Your masculinity stands out like a porno flick in the vatican movie room. She will assume you’ll go introverted and be uncomfortable, a chance for her to gain hand. Instead, you go, and your presence, for the first time, far outshines hers in the secksual market. It’s not even close. No one cares that she exists, everyone is buying you drinks and trying to grasp if you’re gay or not. No one understands you, which adds a flavor of bold mystery.
She’s not jealous in the sense that she feels threatened; but she IS jealous of how much attention you’re getting and she’s not. She begins to try and edge her way to you, but is blocked by gay people clamoring for your attention; pissing her off further. She starts to get worried, “omg, his ego is so fucking inflated right now.” She learned her lesson, and never brings you around gay people again. She secretly thinks to herself how horrible it would be if she was the guy and you were the girl in the relationship.
hey dude. What is it with chicks and horoscopes? Every girl I know seems to swear by the idea that being born in a certain month influences their entire identity. Now I just think it’s total bullshit, but would looking into it more be a good idea (if only for an extra topic of conversation)?
Think about it this way: If a girl has a limited number of eggs and must maximize her biological payout by ensuring she mates with partners that have the highest reproductive values; why would it be favorable for her to assume that an external force has prearranged her love life? It removes the risk that she could be CHOOSING THE WRONG PARTNER; something with far less repercussions for men.
Even if you think its total bullshit, play into it. If she asks you what your sign is, tell her to guess but never actually tell her.
And for anyone wondering how it works; it’s all confirmation bias. A libra girl will read a line that says “Libras may love shopping” and think “wtf? that’s totally me” while a Virgo guy will read a line that says “Virgo loves chastity” and think “holy shit, that’s totally me.” But in reality, both traits are simply characteristics of their gender in general.
Try this experiment for shits and giggles: copy and paste one Zodiac personality summary and send it to a girl of a different sign but don’t tell her it’s not hers. Ask her “This is what I read about your sign, is it true?”
Also, any thoughts on starting a message board for us to interact with each other?
I’ve considered it before; possibly when there are more readers here.
Shark, I’ve something to pick with you. Reading this article has just forced my hand with this comment, as it was kind of the last nail in the coffin. It may also help any newcomers to the site, if you do choose to respond…
Excellent material, as always. Compliments aside however, I just wanted to let you know what not only your articles, but what the existence and my learning of the entire PUA world has done to me. How can I put this… I think I’ve been prematurely unplugged. Being a little younger than most hasn’t helped, by the way. Most on the site seem to think it’s a good thing, coming out of the Matrix, but because I’m either intelligent or pragmatic enough to believe you, the epiphanies that have come with the new lenses you’ve given me have also dealt out wave after wave of depressing realisation. I haven’t been genuinely enjoying life since this happened.
Before you jump the gun: I don’t really lack in the game department, and I have read a fair bit of PUA material before (not your book though). I’ve been in a relationship for about a year now, with another LTR before that went for longer, and I don’t find it hard to ‘get’ girls. So for someone that completely (albeit begrudgingly) believes you, and has had the last glimmering hope of ‘true love’ extinguished, how can I go on and be happy?
No Spoon has a very good answer to this:
I understand what you are saying about the harsh reality behind the ‘magic’ of love, but you are insinuating that what you thought of as ‘true love’ is the only thing that made you happy; the only thing you lived for. Focus on your goals and activities that you ‘love’ and in time you will be glad to have taken the red pill.
I now liken my experience to discovering Santa Claus wasn’t real. It was shocking at first because the mystique of how the presents arrived was gone. But after a while, I discovered what the holiday is really supposed to be about (family/hitting retail targets?), I still got the presents, and now just because I understood the mystique does not mean I enjoyed it any less, just in a different way. Follow me?